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tazjeeper · 03-10-2010, 07:21 AM

this is a how to on doing it cheep.
I have to redo the steering, hubs and, ball joints on the 2dr so I am going to put lock-in lock-outs in it at the same time.. and the d44 in the rear with the limited slip...

so far the 2 hubs are going to be $200.oo tax in
the lock-in lock-outs are out of a Cj7 and the axle shaft aswell.. I have them in the yard..
looked into what they used for parts and that is what they use.. they just build a hub bearing that has 5 on 4.5 to match the cherokee rims..
so this build is going to cost about $450.oo.
I have to have cherokee rotors cut out to fit over the hubs,,, is going to be $50.oo and the price of the rotors, $100.oo for hte pair.
as soon as I have the hubs I will take pics and show the breakdown of what I did.

**FrankZ** · 03-10-2010, 08:38 AM

Better take a very close look at your wheels. I'm pretty sure you'll find that once you open the hole to fit over the hub you're not going to have a lot of material left.

4.3L XJ · 03-10-2010, 10:30 AM

The trick is using a spindle instead of the unit bearing. The best thing would be to use the entire knuckle. But if memory serves me correctly, there is a slight difference in the knuckle so they won't interchange. However if you changed the Cs then it would be a very good deal. The spindle is much stronger than the unit bearing and will take a tone of abuse. Ask me how I know.

**stamp** · 03-10-2010, 11:50 AM

wouldnt it be easier to replace the front and rear axle and start running 5 on 5.5?

tazjeeper · 03-10-2010, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stamp

wouldnt it be easier to replace the front and rear axle and start running 5 on 5.5?

Cj front and rears are are not as wide as the cherokee....

tazjeeper · 03-10-2010, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4.3L XJ

The trick is using a spindle instead of the unit bearing. The best thing would be to use the entire knuckle. But if memory serves me correctly, there is a slight difference in the knuckle so they won't interchange. However if you changed the Cs then it would be a very good deal. The spindle is much stronger than the unit bearing and will take a tone of abuse. Ask me how I know.

Ok I will ask you how you know.
and yes the knuckle is different on the cj then the Xj.
Not sure what you mean by Cs to change????????????
and as far as a spondle thats what I am doing. its the spindle out of a cj with the replacement hub for the kit that warn sells so I am not spending a ton of money on the kit that they sell as its just cj parts....

tazjeeper · 03-10-2010, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankZ

Better take a very close look at your wheels. I'm pretty sure you'll find that once you open the hole to fit over the hub you're not going to have a lot of material left.

well if you have seen pic's of my yard you would know that it does not take me long to find parts that work.
I took a set of 10" wide rims from a cj and they are being drilled at shop so they are 5 x 4 1/2 bolt patern till I order the rims that I want for it..
so thats covered..

4.3L XJ · 03-10-2010, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tazjeeper

Ok I will ask you how you know.
and yes the knuckle is different on the cj then the Xj.
Not sure what you mean by Cs to change????????????
and as far as a spondle thats what I am doing. its the spindle out of a cj with the replacement hub for the kit that warn sells so I am not spending a ton of money on the kit that they sell as its just cj parts....

The C is the C shaped piece that the ball joints are pressed into. Change those and the other stuff will all bolt on.

So, how do I know? Back in my youth I raced my CJ5 that had a double tubed D44 front I made in a machine shop. I was in a race with three other rigs and there was a double berm about 2" high and spaced about three Jeep lengths apart. I was running last in the pack and saw a really good way to pass three of them at once by not slowing down for the berms, but just hitting the first and just jumping the second and putting on a really good show in front of the stands. Almost made it. I caught the very top of the last berm. I bent my double tubes and my steel rim and hit so hard it broke the rotor inside the distributor. So instead of a good show, it started missing and backfiring in front of the stands and the three guys I passed in the air all passed me in front of everybody and I came in dead last. But the spindles held up running 15.50 tires on the front. And my custom springs I designed and marketed at the time held up too in spite of being hung from the rear.

tazjeeper · 03-11-2010, 06:01 AM

well thats a good story 4.3 I am sure the fans liked the air and waching you pass the others.
I was thinkng when you where saying c's you ment the knuckles but had to ask...
I was thinking about doing that but this is a much eazyer way as its all the parts tht are sold in the kit.

**jonzer12** · 03-11-2010, 08:05 AM

I would just pull the trigger on a waggy 44 swap.
Sounds like a lot work for no real increase in strength.
Manual hubs let you limp off the trail with a broken front axle, unit bearings let you swap an axle in 10 minutes on the trail and get back to wheeling. Both have their advantages.

If you really want to do it, you might consider just pressing on CJ inner C's. It will give you benefit of being able to get your castor back and you will be able to run off the shelf rotors.

tazjeeper · 03-15-2010, 12:08 PM

Jonzer12 not sure where you read about a waggy 44 on here but a waggy d44 is a great swap...
moving on...as far as changing a axle, its 10 minutes with a unitbearing and its 10 minutes if you have manual hubs... I had an old Bronco full size years ago that had manual hubs front and rear.. cj'a aswell. not hard to change an axle...
as far as castor with cjs knuckes on the cherokee d30 the caster is different then the xj d30 and would not help me at all as I would have to have that all shimed... to line up to the xj. plus change steering... so back to the I deai I had and is what the parts are when you buy the kit... probably why the remake the parts to fit on a cherokee as the guys with the bucks have done the research and know how to do this...
not to sound rude to anyone as the information and ideas that people bring on this and other sebsites is great BUT.
I was not asking for what people thought on the way I should do this. I was going to help people out if anyone did want to do this type of swap to benefit them with milage on the road and less wear and tear on the front end wial not using 4x4 without the price of the kit..
I think I will just finish it off and be thankfull of the way I did it...
thanks for posting everyone and when I am done if time lets me I will start a wright up for people to see how eazy this is and the benefits that it gives...

**jonzer12** · 03-16-2010, 11:12 AM

Castor is set when you press on the inner C's. Castor is typically thrown off when tring to adjust pinion angle. Pressing on CJ ones would allow you get a perfect pinion angle and maintain factory castor.
I am in no way knocking your idea, people pay big bucks for the warn manual hub kits, I just don't see a real upgrade in strength resulting from it.

tazjeeper · 03-25-2010, 07:51 AM

its not a strength isue its a save gas becasue you can make the tires rool free when not using 4wdr... I and alot of people ( as you Know) use the xj's on the street alot. having the front end not turing saves alot of fuel..
as for caster inless we are talking about 2 different things here you can not get XJ factory caster from Cj knuckes ( c's as you people like to call them) as the caster is different from an Xj..
as far as pinion angle I am not trying to change that as that would result in taking all the coil perches off the housing and rewelding them.. not at all in the plan and the pinion angle on the jeep is fine the way it is...
I do not and have not even read or been told about anyone having to change a pinion angle on the front of an xj inless your going over 10" of lift and even then its not something that needs to be done as you can do other mods to help with the angle...

I realy am not sure that you are getting the point of putting lock-outs on the front housing... its not about strength its about saving money as I have said before..
people pay the big bucks becasue it saves in the long run...
they also do it because warn has taking the time do do the research and find out what parts they needed to make to adapt to the XJ...
another reason people pay the money is when they talk about doing this way people tend to tell them to do this and that and the other thing when they don't know hwat they are dealing with.
do not gt me wrong I know you and others are trying to help but for the most part when I read what your saying you keep going to strength isues.... your missing the point of why a person would do this so you help is clouded..
as I have said you telling me about caster on a cj and a xj and how to change the knuckles and the caster is not even the same...
it would not matter what way I press the knuckles from a cj on to a xj housing the caster is not right... well I could heat and bend the knuckle so that its the same but I can not se this being a good idea...
anyway enough bla it to the gerage where ideas and a yard full of jeep make things happen

**CT99XJ** · 03-25-2010, 08:12 AM

lookin forward to how this turns out... may be doing a d44/amc20 swap myself

**jonzer12** · 03-25-2010, 09:10 AM

Well I have known 2 people who are running the old warn manual hub package both have seen zero mileage increase from manual hubs. I know because I tried to buy the axles from both people and talked about it at length. Internet searches will reveal the same thing. You can spin a dana 30 + driveshaft with 2 fingers there is no appreciable drag. You don't seem to understand castor. You decide what it is when you press a set of C's onto axle tubes or cut and turn stock ones. Once you get your axle under the rig and the pinion angle set you could press on C's at what ever angle you wish so you setup a stock XJ castor.

What you are gaining is the ability to disconnect your front axle from the wheels in the event of a failure and a spindle and regular bearings vs a unit bearing. You will get more strength, less wear but not better mileage. Again I am not knocking what you are doing but you are posting this to inform others,
lets be clear about what you will achieve.

Check this link out

http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/Hybrid_Axle/HybridAxle.htm