Several Cooling Issues


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Old 11-26-2019, 05:10 AM   #1
Michael Jordan
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Default Several Cooling Issues

I've got several things going on with my WJ.

First, my electric fan hasn't been working. Fan still runs but does not kick on when needed. This isn't too much of an issue except when I get caught in traffic. Could this be attributed to the fan relay, or are there other possible problems?

Second, I replaced the t'stat a few weeks back when I thought that was the problem and wound up putting in a 180 degree instead of 195 degree t'stat. So, the engine ran cooler but still, the fan was not working. At the time it did not look like the water pump was an issue, but after awhile I noticed some coolant under the front of the engine, so I thought my first t'stat replacement was the problem. I replaced the t'stat with the 195 degree one, used Permatex Red this time and was really meticulous about getting that right. Once heated up I notice an even bigger leak and this time it appears to the water pump. I will be replacing the water pump this weekend as well as checking for leaks around the latest t'stat fix.

Third, my next question is do I have standard or reverse rotation? I have a serpentine belt which runs everything. What I have determined is that reverse rotation is indicated inside the water pump with an "R" stamped on or near the impeller. If this is the case, does the clutch fan (which I don't have but want to install) have to have the "R" designation and where would I find that mark if I go to my local Pull-a-Part?

Sorry for the long winded story. Thanks in advance for any help!

MJ
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Old 11-26-2019, 11:15 AM   #2
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1st swap your a/C relay with your fan relay. Also. The temp sensor at the tstat is what tells the ecm to kick the aux fan on and off.
I was taught if the water pump pulley is smooth it's reverse rotation. If it's ribbed it's standard rotation. I don't know about any marks stamped on them.
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Old 11-26-2019, 12:42 PM   #3
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What year and engine do you have? But that is right. Smooth pulley runs off the back of the belt
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Old 11-28-2019, 04:45 AM   #4
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Thanks guys!

Where is the AC relay, and what happens when I swap it with the cooling fan relay? Is it just to check to see if the fan relay is the issue? It's not that easy getting to the fan relay seeing as it's under the plastic which is under the right side headlight! Is there no other way to get to the relay other than cutting a hole in the plastic?

So, since the pulley is smooth, it's a reverse pulley and the fan should be a reverse fan since it's mounted on the WP pulley shaft? That would make it counterclockwise rotation if you're standing at the front and looking toward the back(?).

The year is 2002 and engine is 4.0L inline 6.

Thanks again in advance!

MJ
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Old 11-28-2019, 05:13 AM   #5
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The fan relay should be in the pdc. Here is a diagram.
https://images.app.goo.gl/dA6u5q5kbcxrn6ru6

Yes it's just to check the relay.

Yes. CCW rotation
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Old 11-28-2019, 10:04 AM   #6
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Everything I've heard about the location of the cooling fan relay is that it's under plastic underneath the passenger side headlight. Is there a way to get to the relay without cutting a hole in the plastic?

Also, I've discovered this morning that the t'stat housing was cracked and was probably due to over-torquing. Is there a torque value out there for these bolts?
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Old 11-28-2019, 10:33 AM   #7
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We talking a 4.0?
Cause of the way it is set up the thermostat sometimes slips out of place.
Then you go to tighten it and the housing cranks.
So I am leaning towards that instead of over-torquing.
These are what the specs are for my '00 XJ 4.0
Whether this applies to a WJ is anybodies guess.

17 ft lbs for the water pump
15 ft lbs for the thermostat
20 ft lbs for the pulley.
35 ft lbs for the idler that tightens the belt.
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Old 11-29-2019, 12:14 PM   #8
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Yes, 4.0L.

I am aware of the t'stat and was very careful getting it to stay in place. I just finished for the 3rd time. Hopefully got it right this time. Letting the Permatex cure as we speak.

I also checked the t'stat temp sensor and it seems to be working. I checked for resistance with it cold and it showed some. When I heated it in boiling water, the resistance went down to zero, so that tells me that its operating/opening. Am I right here? So, if my fan still works as stated earlier and the temp sensor is opening, then is it safe to assume that the cooling fan relay is at fault? Can I get an Amen here?!?

Those torques seem to be in line for the t'stat housing. Thanks!
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Old 11-29-2019, 01:19 PM   #9
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Here's a quirky little question.

When the electric fan blows, does it push air out the front of the radiator or does it suck air in through the radiator into the engine compartment? There is a rotational arrow on the fan hub which would indicate that it blows air out the front. Conversely, with a clutch fan, is it supposed to blow air out the front or suck air into the engine compartment?
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Old 11-29-2019, 02:56 PM   #10
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It should suck air from the front
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Old 11-29-2019, 05:37 PM   #11
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Is your fan clutch working? I know it doesn't have anything to do with the relay, but I was just curious.
Our engines have "puller" fans, which means they pull air across the radiator then through the fan onto the engine. If the fan was in front of the radiator and air went through fan first and got pushed through the radiator, then it would be a "pusher"
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Old 11-30-2019, 01:57 PM   #12
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I'll have to check for fan rotation when I get the new relay in to see which way the air is moving.

As for the fan clutch - there is no clutch fan on my Jeep, just the electric. Still debating whether I want one or not, you know, pros and cons. I did hear one opinion from an "answer" site that said a clutch fan would put a drag on the engine and reduce performance/mileage. I can their point but is there any truth to this thought?
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Old 11-30-2019, 03:11 PM   #13
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A purely academic answer is yes. However the clutch fan is designed to be a compromise. The fan turns less rotations with the clutch absorbing some heat energy due to friction. You really do need a clutch fan unless the electric fan can pull enough air. Most don't. There a few exceptions to that though
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Old 12-01-2019, 07:09 AM   #14
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I've never had any issues when the fan was operating properly. It would kick on when needed and keep the temp stable at about 195 degrees. If I can find a reasonably priced clutch fan at the local pull-a-part, I'll try it out. For now, though, the electric fan works fine if I can make this one final determination that my relay is what's bad.

Which brings me to what I hope will be my final question on this thread.

I have determined that the fan will NOT run when called for, either with coolant heat (temp.) or when AC is switched on. I confirmed that the fan still works, so that rules that out as the problem. I checked the temperature sensor at the t'stat, and it operates properly (opens) when heated in boiling water. If I did that check right, then that should rule that out as the problem. This brings me to, what I believe to be, the problem - the relay. I hate just swapping parts out with new ones for lack of a better way to determine the problem. Is there possibly something I've missed here?

Sorry once again for the long winded questions/comments. Just want to get this done.

Thanks again in advance!

MJ
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Old 12-01-2019, 07:13 AM   #15
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On the issue of fan rotation, I was most likely confused about the which way it turned and realized that the fan, when operating, will pull air through the radiator toward the engine.
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