New leaf pack inverted/negative arch?

4898 Views 40 Replies 10 Participants Last post by virshereads, 5 mo ago

tuxj

Discussion Starter · Aug 11, 2021 (Edited)

Hey team,

I just noticed this while the Jeep was on the lift getting exhaust work done. My new leafs seem to be arching over the axle to form a “W/ Mustache” shape, as opposed to a “U” shape. (This is a drive-on lift at the shop, as opposed to a frame lift, so it sits as it would on the road).

It’s IRO 3.5” packs, IRO 1.5” Boomerang shackle, Iron Man Shackle Relocation Brackets.

I reached out to IRO and they think it’s caused by the relocation brackets and recommended removing them.

Only thing I realized during installation is I installed pack onto axle first, then lined up front and rear bushings. Would installing ends first, and then securing to axle be any better?

Here are some photos.

Thanks!

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Gluckmysock

· #21 · Aug 13, 2021

Be very careful when removing the center bolt. The springs are under tension. The easiest way would be jack up the jeep with Jack stands under the frame. Then using a floor jack to jack up the axle to where it just about lifts the jeep off the jack stands, pull the wheels, remove the U bolts and loosen the center pin. SLOWLY lower the floor jack and just when the center pin starts to get tight, loosen it the rest of the way. Now be careful cause the axle is just kinda floating on the jack. Then slowly let it the rest of the way down far enough to get the center pin out and the lower spring. Insert the S10 spring and reverse everything from there.

4.3L XJ

· #22 · Aug 13, 2021

Good point Gluck. What you refered to is called snap. Usually, there is only about 1/8" snap between leaves in a pack. I use a couple of C clamps when I do it. Also you will need a new center bolt. Make sure they are real center bolts. They are soft and made for the purpose. Using something like grade 8 hardware for this will insure the bolt will brake at some point

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Jay Spartan

· #23 · Aug 20, 2021

An observation from a newb and hoping I'm not stepping on any toes here, or at least not too hard.

That compound curve in the leafs is wrong for a new buy / install. So far in this thread everyone agrees with that.

The OP lists this . . .
"It’s IRO 3.5” packs, IRO 1.5” Boomerang shackle, Iron Man Shackle Relocation Brackets."

The next line is from IRO saying what the problem is . . .
"I reached out to IRO and they think it’s caused by the relocation brackets and recommended removing them."

Only 3 items are on the list. The vendor's solution is removing the only product they did not provide.

Maybe a significant purchase shouldn't have to go thru multiple fixes, time, labor, and additional purchases to make it right?

I don't know about this stuff. Just seeing red flags I would see in any business transaction.

Cheers

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tuxj

Discussion Starter · #24 · Aug 20, 2021

Jay Spartan said:
An observation from a newb and hoping I'm not stepping on any toes here, or at least not too hard.

That compound curve in the leafs is wrong for a new buy / install. So far in this thread everyone agrees with that.

The OP lists this . . .
"It’s IRO 3.5” packs, IRO 1.5” Boomerang shackle, Iron Man Shackle Relocation Brackets."

The next line is from IRO saying what the problem is . . .
"I reached out to IRO and they think it’s caused by the relocation brackets and recommended removing them."

Only 3 items are on the list. The vendor's solution is removing the only product they did not provide.

Maybe a significant purchase shouldn't have to go thru multiple fixes, time, labor, and additional purchases to make it right?

I don't know about this stuff. Just seeing red flags I would see in any business transaction.

Cheers

Here’s the best part. On their website for the leaf packs, it stated that due to their springs being longer than stock they would require a longer shackle or shackle relocation brackets. Hence why I went down the road of the relocation brackets, especially after researching their advantages.

I pointed this out to IRO rep, and was told that was an old note that should have been removed, since their engineers have been noticing relocation brackets putting stress on the leaf springs and causing this issue. As a result we worked out an agreement that I’m good with, and they removed the relocation bracket portion of the note from their website.

Now I’m just waiting on a different company to get bushings in stock for them to ship out their leaf packs to me to replace the IRO saggy set.

Don’t want this to be an IRO bash thread, as I’ve had good experiences with them in years past, and am very happy with their other products on my rig (coils, long arms, armor, etc). Just wasn’t pleased with their leafs at all. Glad we were able to work it out in the end though.

Now hoping the next set I try will have better results.

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4.3L XJ

· #25 · Aug 20, 2021

👍👍👍

tsc

· #26 · Aug 24, 2021

I'm curious as to what product you replaced it with? I've done 4.5" with OME kits and older rubicon express, now I removed an overload leaf from my 3.5" OME kit and I'm around 3" with a bit flat overload leaf- and there is no curve or bend in these like the IRO, kind of curious

tuxj

Discussion Starter · #27 · Aug 24, 2021

tsc said:
I'm curious as to what product you replaced it with? I've done 4.5" with OME kits and older rubicon express, now I removed an overload leaf from my 3.5" OME kit and I'm around 3" with a bit flat overload leaf- and there is no curve or bend in these like the IRO, kind of curious

I went with BDS 3” pack, although their bushings are currently backordered so waiting on them to ship before I swap them in.

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tuxj

Discussion Starter · #28 · Aug 26, 2021

I already like how these new springs look in comparison. Hopefully they settle better once installed.

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4.3L XJ

· #29 · Aug 26, 2021

You have a fundamentally different spring here. This is a two stage spring as opposed to a single stage spring. They ride better, but can still support the weight as the bottom leaves come into play. I run a bastard pack that is set up like this and works well for me

Reactions: 1

tuxj

Discussion Starter · #30 · Aug 26, 2021

4.3L XJ said:
You have a fundamentally different spring here. This is a two stage spring as opposed to a single stage spring. They ride better, but can still support the weight as the bottom leaves come into play. I run a bastard pack that is set up like this and works well for me

Good to know. I’m curious to see the height comparison once installed.

IRO pack is 3.5”, but not sure if the sag issue changed that.

BDS is 3”. Not sure if they run tall or not, like RE does.

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4.3L XJ

· #31 · Aug 27, 2021

It is hard to tell okn a two stage spring. The mathematics are much more complicated. You have to start doing calculus for that

Reactions: 1

tuxj

Discussion Starter · #32 · Sep 3, 2021

BDS springs look good to me!

Ride height is about the same as the other springs. The ride itself is much cushier and smooth, less stiff than the old ones.

So far, so good.

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4.3L XJ

· #33 · Sep 3, 2021

Sounds good. Those two stage springs always ride better

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Doomslayer

· #34 · Sep 5, 2021

First scrap that axle and start over, way too much headache, dana 30 is weak and a waste of money. If tour gong through that much trouble just get a differnt rear end. Those are scrap .

tuxj

Discussion Starter · #35 · Sep 5, 2021 (Edited)

Doomslayer said:
First scrap that axle and start over, way too much headache, dana 30 is weak and a waste of money. If tour gong through that much trouble just get a differnt rear end. Those are scrap .

Dana 30s are Front axles. If you’re thinking of a Dana 35, this is a Corp 8.25 axle. I’m good with it.

Not sure how an axle swap would remedy sagging springs anyway. ???

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quicksilver

· #36 · Sep 6, 2021

Doomslayer said:
First scrap that axle and start over, way too much headache, dana 30 is weak and a waste of money. If tour gong through that much trouble just get a differnt rear end. Those are scrap .

Like the man said brother, its only leaf springs that are getting done. I could see your point if he were repairing an issue with the differential, but being that it is a c8.25 your comment is a bit off base. Take your time, learn a bit from this site. We members have lots of knowledge to share.

And FWIW, there's a few members who have regeared the D30 front and are running it locked on 35s, myself included. Will it break eventually? Yes, but its good enough til I get the D60 and 10.25 combo i have chilling ready to rock.

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4.3L XJ

· #37 · Sep 6, 2021

Never broke my locked 30 either, but like Quick I have other axles ready to go. Shoot, I never have broken my locked D35 either, but that doesn't mean it can't be done from a lapse in judgement

Reactions: 1

Rocky’7

· #38 · 12 mo ago

tuxj said:
Hey team,

I just noticed this while the Jeep was on the lift getting exhaust work done. My new leafs seem to be arching over the axle to form a “W/ Mustache” shape, as opposed to a “U” shape. (This is a drive-on lift at the shop, as opposed to a frame lift, so it sits as it would on the road).

It’s IRO 3.5” packs, IRO 1.5” Boomerang shackle, Iron Man Shackle Relocation Brackets.

I reached out to IRO and they think it’s caused by the relocation brackets and recommended removing them.

Only thing I realized during installation is I installed pack onto axle first, then lined up front and rear bushings. Would installing ends first, and then securing to axle be any better?

Here are some photos.

Thanks!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

tuxj said:
I experimented with moving the shackles back one hole on the shackle relocation brackets. Not much, if any, difference in the springs or the ride.

Took some photos while leafs were at full droop and shackle bolts loose. Sorry for the dark lighting; had to start working on it at 4:30am to beat the triple digit heat outside!

And here is how it looks with vehicle weight on them, in the new position on the SRB.

I’m really torn about putting any money into these. I want a solid rig, but I also am happy with the ride and height. So if it’s not going to get worse or cause issues, I think I’d roll with it. I dunno. lol

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Hey, I just found this post and am currently with mostly the same problem, except it’s just their boomerang, and 3.5 leafs. Mine look exactly the same, only a couple hundred miles on them, and leaning about an inch passenger side low. Was wondering what came about with your leafs?

tuxj

Discussion Starter · #39 · 12 mo ago (Edited)

Rocky’7 said:
Hey, I just found this post and am currently with mostly the same problem, except it’s just their boomerang, and 3.5 leafs. Mine look exactly the same, only a couple hundred miles on them, and leaning about an inch passenger side low. Was wondering what came about with your leafs?

Rocky, they had me cut them in half and send a photo to deem them unusable so I could get a refund. It was either that or pay to have them sent back. Don’t know if that would be an option for you.

I went with BDS leaf springs, and they are doing better. Paired with the same IRO boomerang shackles I had initially installed.

Edit: For reference I believe I had their 3.5 leaf pack, like you. That’s what comes with their 4” lift I think, with the shackles for the extra height.

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ronkeefe113

· #40 · 5 mo ago

4.3L XJ said:
OK, now for my 2 cents. First I will tell you that I used to design and build lift kits from scratch in the 70s, until Rancho put me out of business with Chinese stuff. I have also worked briefly in a spring foundry. So here it is.

I see two things wrong here. First the middle of the spring is not supported enough and all the bending is there. Eventually, this spring will sag as it will loose the temper there from being bent too far.

Second, I am going to trash some internet conventional wisdom. It is a popular thing to put the shackle at the angle you have there, and you obviously bought a kit for that purpose. However the reason they soften the ride is that they make the spring bend exactly as you have shown here (Thanks for the pics on this). The spring bends in an unnatural way and only bends on one spot instead of all over so the ride is "softened". Now I can find probably a hundred guys on forums that will disagree with me on this, but the proof is in the pics.

You nailed it. Put the shackles back to the proper position where they we're originally engineered ( not the guys who built yours) to go IE Straight up and down and you'll get the springs back to the correct curve. Yes you will lose the smooth ride a bit but the springs will last a whole lot longer.

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