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Discussion Starter #401 (Edited)
To anyone with experience with a non-crush sleeve pinion HP D30: I need to make setup bearings for the pinion as well, right?
 

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No, only for the carrier. The outside pinion bearing just slips on and the nut holds it tight to the shims. When setting up the pinion, there are some shims that go under the large pinion race. Look on the pinion for a number, like say 4 or .004 for the proper thickness to go under it. Good luck
 

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When I did my HP D30, I made a set up setup bearing for the pinion. The shims do go between the pinion and the inner bearing. Even if you use a pinion depth gauge, you may need to move the pinion in or out a couple thousands. If you pressed the bearings on, you will more than likely ruined it trying to pry it off. An oil baffle (slinger) is required on HP D30's. It goes in the stack between the pinion head and inner bearing. Its to get oil up through the galley at the top so the outer bearing gets oil.
 

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Do you mind if I ask a couple questions about gearing set-up on your thread? I will be starting to build my axles soon and there are a couple things I'm curious about?
 

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Discussion Starter #405
Do you mind if I ask a couple questions about gearing set-up on your thread? I will be starting to build my axles soon and there are a couple things I'm curious about?
Sure, go ahead bud. These are my second and third axles undergoing a rebuild and my 1st regear. This is all new to me as well.
 

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Well this is what I have going on. Both axles I bought are already loaded with the ring and pinion. The Dana 44 out of a International Scout, turned out to be bent to crap housing/axle shaft. So we have a guy up in Grant that has a lot of Scout parts and sold me a housing for $125 and sourced axle shafts off Ebay. Also bought a complete rebuild kit. If I pull the guts and go ahead and just swap it in (as long as the bearing and races are looking good) and check all the tolerances. If it does check out I'd would it be good to go? I Have a similar situation with the Dana 30, bought the rebuild kit for it as well. I have bought most everything I need to break it all down and rebuild them completely. Once we get into it we will probably just go ahead and use all the new parts but just curious if since the carrier and gears where already broke in together would it be ok?
 

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Discussion Starter #407 (Edited)
The biggest issue I see is the pinion depth in each axle. It is probably the biggest hypothetical obstacle to hurdle in your theoretical 'swap'. I would still replace the carrier bearings while your in there: especially the D44. Lord knows how worn they're gonna be. How old is the D44 axle? 30/40yrs old?

The D30 is a bit harder to say. There are several variants of the D30; including ring rotation (High pinion vs Low Pinion).

If you have a harbor freight nearby, and a couple extra hundred to do it right: I would rebuild and re-set up both axles. Will require a case spreader(not necessary but desirable) (I'll be selling mine soon), a shop press, a bearing puller, a micrometer, and a dead blow hammer. Having the right tools helps to make it as painless as possible. Also, you need to make setup bearings. If you manage to remove the old carrier bearings without damaging them, you can use them for creating the setup bearings. However, know that even though you may have the exact same part number, there are ever so tiny slight variations from manufacturer to manufacturer. It is suggested to use the exact same bearing manufacturer that you'll be installing when the setup is finished.

My Aluminum D44HD is different than a standard Iron D44. Mine is a C'clip axle and uses a pinion crush sleeve instead of shims. I don't know what you're dealing with in that older D44. Most likely you'll need to adjust the pinion depth depending on the factory milling/forging? of the pinion you will be using. Tolerances are very specific and are very small (thousandths of an inch .001)from carrier housing to carrier housing. I would imagine you will need to set up both axles regardless: you probably don't have a choice.

However, it doesn't hurt to try it out and see where you're at. As long as the number on the face of the old pinion is the same as the one you'll be putting in: you may have a small chance it could work.

I suppose you could get lucky and find that you may not need to change anything in terms of shims for pinion depth and carrier backlash/In-board-Outboard Carrier shims. I highly doubt it. However, should it happen: go buy yourself some lottery tickets or stay inside while there is lightning in the area.

I am sure if there is something I have gotten wrong or have forgotten, someone will be by shortly to correct me. Stay tuned!
 

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Yeah the right tools should prove to be valuable. I have a heavy duty shop press (I had to purchase a new hydraulic jack for so 30 ton from harbor freight) I went ahead and bought a clam shell bearing puller, actually almost every tool I think I'll need. But still need a couple things. The axles have arb lockers so I don't think the bearings have a lot of mileage on them. I would be worried about whether the carrier on the bent axle was damaged but arb's are supposed to be one of the strongest on the market, when the time comes to actually put things together I'm going to try and enlist some experienced help. I will probably go ahead and truss the dana 44 since it's out.

I had some trouble dialing the front and rear suspension (complete overhaul during the fall) now that it is near perfect for me. The gearing is the next step.
I wheeled with a guy that is running the same gearing with the 5 spd like mine, I asked him if it was to steep. He said it was perfect. Top speed 80 mph. He also tows a teardrop trailer no problems.

Thanks for your input I might be tracking down some set-up bearings if I can't use the old ones. Good advice!
 

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I'm with DaingMaing, he is spot on. I will add, Ring and Pinions are sets. They are cut and ground to match one another, although you can physically interchange them, it should never be done, doing so is a recipe for disaster, plus it may be nearly impossible to get a good contact pattern, which is a visual representation of how the gears are meshed together. And the only way to know if they are setup correctly. Like Daing said, you have to completely set them up, with new bearings. Read this: BillaVista Gear setup Bible It tells you everything you need to know about gears.

I would think the carrier is OK, unless it took a really bad direct hit.
 

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Discussion Starter #411
Its a helluva write up on the how to. I used this one and one from pirate 4x4 that I got from 4.3L XJ. Both pages helped a ton and made it simple enough to understand how to do. It made it considerably easier to do... and I still put too much preload on my carrier during the final install.... (y):unsure:
 

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Discussion Starter #412
Thanks for your input I might be tracking down some set-up bearings if I can't use the old ones. Good advice!
I had a hard time finding the Koyo brand bearings that were the staple bearing in both of my USA standard gear rebuild kits. I found the HP D30 Carrier Bearings on Amazon, and found the inner pinion roller on eBay. It took a couple of hours of sleuthing on the interwebs.

Lemme know if you have a hard time finding them. I may have my D30 setup bearings laying around after I'm done. I'd sell em cheap for sure. The case spreader wasn't as cheap, but I can wheel n deal if you want it. I plan to be done in the next four weeks or so. If you're interested....
 

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Discussion Starter #413
D30 setup bearings are finished and the D44HD is completely torn down and ready to clean. Hopefully, I can get the first pattern run tomorrow night.
 
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Discussion Starter #414 (Edited)
I've got a blank canvas to start with.

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As you can see on the RGSB side of the housing, the O ring is gone. I managed to pull it without thinking two years ago. ?‍♂

I can not easily find a replacement out on the interwebs. Leave it this way? High Temp RTV to seal it up? remove other Oring and try to find a replacement at local hardware shop?
 

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Discussion Starter #415 (Edited)
So I am hoping for confirmation about pinion depth variance.

My old pinion face marking(D44HD):

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My new pinion face marking:

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My main question is about the new pinion marking. It appears that the matching ring gear's last three digits on the side also says 037.

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My FSM:

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According to the FSM, it is saying to add .001 shim under the new inner pinion race cup... I do not have any pinion shims in my rebuild kit, it is a crush sleeve axle.

I am about 70% sure that "0" is what is on the face of the pinion and the new pinion's depth variance is 0. I am ASSUMING because nothing is etched on the face.

I am looking for confirmation or a more educated answer?
 

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I would try and replace that oring. I'm pretty sure it's what seals the joint between the axle tube and the housing.
As for pinion depth, the marking on the original pinion is +1. And your new one doesn't have any markings. Which according to your fsm, you would still include .001 shim in your shim stack. All pinions have shims between the pinion head and inner bearing, OR between the inner race and housing. This number should be in the fsm under pinion depth. This is not a guarantee of pinion depth. It's to narrow down as close as possible to get a good pattern.
And the crush sleeve has nothing to do with pinion depth. It's strictly for pinion bearing preload. It separates the inner and outer bearings, and as it crushes, the bearings get closer and closer. This removes the play from between the bearings. As you tighten this up, you create the pinion bearing preload. Which is a rotational torque measurement, and measured in "Inch pounds" usually between 7-12 inch pounds. And this has to be set EVERY time you run a gear mesh with gear marking compound. It may work on the first try or the 9th.
Good luck.
 

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I go away for a few months and come back to find you are still building gearsets. Boy howdy am I lost.
 

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Discussion Starter #418
I go away for a few months and come back to find you are still building gearsets. Boy howdy am I lost.
LOL... HA! Yeah you betcha...

Yeah life had taken over for quite some time with Dad checking out and then promptly breaking an ankle. I've had about 3-4K in parts just sitting in the garage waiting to be put on.

Slow and steady wins the race.... well slow at least.:unsure:
 
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Discussion Starter #419
Slow and steady as she goes...

Pinion crush sleeve and bearing preload is set on the D44HD. It took almost 273 ft lbs to crush it into spec. It's sitting at about 28-30 in lbs of rotation: Spec is 20-40 in lbs. I'm hoping I won't have to do that much more. I don't think my Yoke Tool can handle it, even with the tab seated all the way in the 3/4" iron pipe; it's still bending under that much force.

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That's all I can do tonight. Like a dip-shit I dodn't grab any sealant for the axle tube O-Ring seals.

I'm gonna leave some pics of the O-Ring packages so somebody down the line knows what the size is. I went with an AS568 -330 NBR ring.

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I wasn't 100% sure about which O-Ring material to use. The NBR (Nitrile Butadiene Rubber) appeared to be more resistant than the VMQ fluoroelastomer material to Petro-oil but I wasn't certain about the friction modifier that the full synthetic 75-140 that this trac-lok requires. So I think I'll be going with the NBR, but it took a bit to try and research why. If anyone else has some knowledge please drop it on me?

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I think I'll be going with this square O-Ring in the end. It just seats better in there than the standard tubular type.
 

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This is really cool to see your progress on your gearing DaingMaing,

Mark and I started installing his brothers lift on his Jeep it's a OME 3" lift. I love working on XJ's (the whole built not bought thing) I'm a little concerned that we will need to go the relocate bracket route like I had to. We will see once we get the bolts out of the front end of the leaf springs. What PITA!!!! I'll try and share some photos but ever since I have been using this tablet I to serf the web. My PC always takes a while to get going (updates). Cheers!
 
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